Sailplane soaring in XP 11

[rhb]

As a former dedicated soaring pilot (occasionally in real life, seriously in simming), I really would love to see some basic performance enhancements for the pilots who enjoy sailplane flying. I am a dedicated X Plane pilot now, but formerly flew FSX, the standard FSX had little to offer the soaring pilot as well, but as we all know over the years there were thousands of third party addons for FSX, and and the virtual soaring community was small but dedicated. X Plane has very good native ridge lift, compared to Cumulus X in FSX virtually the same. Thermal modeling is a tricky business, and I don't expect Laminar to address this anytime soon to improve what they have.

Someone posted previously that associating Cumulus clouds with thermals would be something easy enough to do, I don't know, but it would be a start. In addition my other request, which could be done by third party developers is to improve the instrumentation. The current total energy vario is inadequate, and the audio lag is pathetic and unrealistic. Ir would be nice to have a compensated vario with a realistic output both in the gauge and the audio. Perhaps I am not aware of some options, if there are third party instruments out there, I would love to know about them.

Moving soaring tasks from Plan G to FMS is very do able so assigning existing tasks to the GPS is not a problem.

If there are any soaring enthusiasts out there, I would like to get your feedback and or experience with soaring in X Plane, What can we do to make the best of what we have, and what exists to make the soaring experience better?

I am aware that Laminar supposedly does not read forums, but Filing a bug report seems inappropriate. I'm sure The powers that be are lurking here from time to time.

I am going to add some related apps software and scripts here as I am aware of them, so folks don't have to back read entire thread.

EDIT 8/4/17

Android apps:

LK 8000 Beta - Full feature soaring calculator and moving map similar to XCSoar but much easier to set up for X Plane.

tutorial for LK 8000: https://sites.google.com/site/jarosrwebsite/goflypico/setting-up-lk8000

youtube tutorials for LK 8000:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbhGJ-j60LE&t=167s&list=WL&index=33

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFl3pwBNvPY&t=182s

Turnpoints, airports, and airspaces: http://soaringweb.org/TP/NA.html#US_NY

UK Turning Point List Prog for pc, (Waypoints). Select "Cambridge" output for X-C Soar LK8000 (CUP).    http://www.newportpeace.co.uk/waypoints/_tpselect/tpselect_load.htm

LK Maps - map downloads for the above app, on google play

X Plane to GPS - paid app, (1.00) sends GPS data to LK 8000, on Google play

XCSoar - similar to LK 8000, set up is difficult in FSX requiring virtual serial ports. Personally have not used it in X Plane

Other addons:

thermal scripts: By Alex Ferrer  https://github.com/alexferrer/xplane_thermals

Python version 2.7.3 works for me for thermal scripts: By Alex Ferrer .

Detailed installation instructions here; http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/127038-sailplane-soaring-in-xp-11/&do=findComment&comment=1223169

OpenTrack is a great headtracker for LED Cap or Clip.  https://github.com/opentrack/opentrack/releases

 

This version is stable;   https://github.com/opentrack/opentrack/releases/tag/opentrack-2.3.1.4

Creator of XPRealistic & SimHat,  RK86097, Has an app to enable your i-phone (and soon Android) as a Headtracker. http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/126574-iphone-users-check-this-out/

Face Track Noir http://facetracknoir.sourceforge.net/home/default.htm Head tracking donation ware about 3 bucks, works very well and is an eye tracker, no head gear needed. New version 200 is working very well, be advised after donating and downloading, you need to go back and download the plug in package from the website to allow it to work

 

EDIT 9/9/2017

Controlling Winch speed SASL 

 

Thermal generation for Multi player tasks Modified Alex Ferrer's scripts:

THERMAL HOTSPOTS FOR THERMAL SCRIPTS

 

 

Edited September 11, 2017 by rhb

[rhb]

Looking forward to lots of good input.

Edited August 6, 2017 by rhb
pilots responded!

[Super27]

Hi,

I am quite happy with the soaring capabilities in XP11. While I am not a glider pilot, I would love to see more gliders with decent 3d cockpits in XP11. Was around gliders a long time ago, so my favorites would be older classic types like the Schleicher Ka6E, Ka8b or ASK13. Or any of the Scheibe types, SF26, SF27 or Bergfalke, L-Spatz, Mucha, Foka, Bocian, Lunak etc.  There are some converted types from FS9 available, but their "3d" cockpits are poor and the rudder animation needs to be corrected. 

I do like the default ASK21 and the towing option in XP11. I do not need any of the modern devices like GPS etc. in a glider, just want to enjoy the search for thermals or ridge lift and navigate using my eyeballs and TrackIr 5 in a gorgeous ortho scenery.

More folks should give gliding in XP11 a try. It is REALLY very enjoyable!

So if any of you airplane designers are out there looking for a new project, why not consider creating some beautiful gliders?  I would be willing to spend a few bucks or Euros on a nice classic sailplane.

Thank you.

All the best,

Werner

Edited August 3, 2017 by Super27

[Bourrinopathe]

Hi,

I'm also interested in sailplane flying. I'm rather new to X-Plane and even if I'm hitting some obvious limitations, the simulation has a lot to offer to GA enthusiasts.
I don't know how accurate XP11 can be to enjoy the gliders. As far as I know, the thermals in XP are very simplistic and probably most variometers are not compensated.
In spite of that, there might be some interesting gliders and I recently enjoyed testing the VSkyLabs motor glider:

The 3D cockpit is also really pleasing.
I think a owner of the real thing posted a positive feedback (and some suggestions) on the VSkyLabs forums.

Some fellow simmers also pointed out that one of the best soaring simulator is Condor, that should model thermals in a more believable way than XP. But you probably know that simulator already.
It's sometimes not easy to hit some of the more serious limitations in XP. For example, I'm really enjoying bush flying but the ground handling simulation in XP has obviously never been designed for that, and it's really difficult to enjoy landings and take-offs in the wild. Fortunately it's much more enjoyable in the air

So, I'd be interested in reading any feedback and advice from experienced glider pilots in relation to what X-Plane 11 can offer.

Thanks and happy soaring !

Edited August 3, 2017 by Bourrinopathe

[rhb]

37 minutes ago, Super27 said:

Hi,

I am quite happy with the soaring capabilities in XP11. While I am not a glider pilot, I would love to see more gliders with decent 3d cockpits in XP11. Was around gliders a long time ago, so my favorites would be older classic types like the Schleicher Ka6E, Ka8b or ASK13. Or any of the Scheibe types, SF26, SF27 or Bergfalke, L-Spatz, Mucha, Foka, Bocian, Lunak etc.  There are some converted types from FS9 available, but their "3d" cockpits are poor and the rudder animation needs to be corrected. 

I do like the default ASK21 and the towing option in XP11. I do not need any of the modern devices like GPS etc. in a glider, just want to enjoy the search for thermals or ridge lift and navigate using my eyeballs and TrackIr 5 in a gorgeous ortho scenery.

More folks should give gliding in XP11 a try. It is REALLY very enjoyable!

So if any of you airplane designers are out there looking for a new project, why not consider creating some beautiful gliders?  I would be willing to spend a few bucks or Euros on a nice classic sailplane.

Thank you.

All the best,

Werner

Well, I agree that the ridge lift is modeled very well, thermals are ok, but not realistic, but I really don't expect much better as it becomes then difficult to program for the few who soar seriously. However, associating clouds with thermals would be a big help in seeking thermals as in the real world. The real problem I see is the pathetic total energy vario which is almost useless along with the sound. That could make a HUGE DIFFERENCE in the X Plane soaring experience, new gauges to choose from with increased capability.

There are a number of good sailplanes many with 2 D cockpits however, that work in X Plane 11

Nimbus 4DLM 3D

Bocian SZD 9, ASW-15, all the Hortens, ASH-25, Mucha, Swift light (ultralight)

and two very old primitive XP 10 renditions, but excellent flyers, by me the Puchacz and MDM Fox, both aerobatic sailplanes.

[rhb]

14 minutes ago, Bourrinopathe said:

Hi,

I'm also interested in sailplane flying. I'm rather new to X-Plane and even if I'm hitting some obvious limitations, the simulation has a lot to offer to GA enthusiasts.
I don't know how accurate XP11 can be to enjoy the gliders. As far as I know, the thermals in XP are very simplistic and probably most variometers are not compensated.
In spite of that, there might be some interesting gliders and I recently enjoyed testing the VSkyLabs motor glider:

 

The 3D cockpit is also really pleasing.
I think a owner of the real thing posted a positive feedback (and some suggestions) on the VSkyLabs forums.

Some fellow simmers also pointed out that one of the best soaring simulator is Condor, that should model thermals in a more believable way than XP. But you probably know that simulator already.

Thanks and happy soaring !

I have a number of Payware planes on my list, and the VSkylabs Phoenix air is one of them!

Condor is a well known dedicated soaring simulator for fullscale pilots, it is not so graphically intensive but functionally very good.

XC Soar is a dedicated moving map and flight planner app for andriod that works well in FSX, I have not yet tried installing it with X Plane, It is a dedicated soaring app that can signal thermal centers , has tracking and airspace warnings. It is a little tricky to set up in FSX, not sure how easy or difficult it would be in X Plane.

[P G]

Hi All,

I have to agree about the stock ASK21 vario - inadequate and misleading. A Compensated vario is badly needed.

It seems difficult to persuade designers that a true sailplane is a financially viable project, there are fewer gliding enthusiasts in the X-Plane community, (or are there more of us lurking in the background than we think?).

I am of the Grunau II, Olympia 463, Ka8, Ka6, SF 26, era so hanker for realistic soaring.

I still have Silent Wings - which has a reasonable thermal simulation, but truly terrible graphics.

Does anybody else use Alex Ferrers Python Script Thermal Sim - I find the thermal simulation adequate in that.

I am spoilt by XP 11 which with XPRealistic and ortho tiles is a great platform for gliding - just getting the varios right would make it better.

I did try a Bug report on the varios but heard nothing back. I am waiting patiently for every XP 11 release to see if there is improvement.

Perhaps if more Bug reports went in it might push things on.

Regards to All

P G

[rhb]

2 hours ago, P G said:

Hi All,

I have to agree about the stock ASK21 vario - inadequate and misleading. A Compensated vario is badly needed.

It seems difficult to persuade designers that a true sailplane is a financially viable project, there are fewer gliding enthusiasts in the X-Plane community, (or are there more of us lurking in the background than we think?).

I am of the Grunau II, Olympia 463, Ka8, Ka6, SF 26, era so hanker for realistic soaring.

I still have Silent Wings - which has a reasonable thermal simulation, but truly terrible graphics.

Does anybody else use Alex Ferrers Python Script Thermal Sim - I find the thermal simulation adequate in that.

I am spoilt by XP 11 which with XPRealistic and ortho tiles is a great platform for gliding - just getting the varios right would make it better.

I did try a Bug report on the varios but heard nothing back. I am waiting patiently for every XP 11 release to see if there is improvement.

Perhaps if more Bug reports went in it might push things on.

Regards to All

P G

I looked at the thread for the Thermal script, but I was not able to access the download, (may be my problem) last post on Alex's thread was 2014, is it still supported and working?

I was going to try to load XC Soar but found that LK8000 now has an android app. It is very easy to set up using GPS to X Plane and offers a full feature soaring calculator/moving map etc. Still only just started looking at it, so I am not sure about implementing all the features yet. But it is a good start.

Yes give me good compensated vario and audio file. please. however using LK 8000 could alleviate the need for that so much. Check it out.

 

[Vorlin]

I was the one who suggested clouds be slapped at the top of thermals and yes, I did communicate this via a bug report, as suggested.

As far as a lack of replies go, be patient. Many of us can go weeks without checking the forums, myself included.

The thermals script does indeed work, though getting the python to work was a real hassle for me.

One strange issue I've had twice is the VSI and Total Energy instruments suddenly inverting, reading down for lift and up for sink. Both times it seems to have taken a reinstall to fix the problem.

Lastly, I cannot recommend TrackerXP strongly enough. Just getting the free demo that goes 15 minutes at a time totally changed the experience of XPlane for me and being able to look around by moving your head is a huge plus for any nape of the earth junkie, like me. It's also pretty nice if you use the smoke plugin to track your thermals and lift, leaving a trail behind you so you can see where to go back to. Being able to keep your eye on the point you want to fly to is a huge deal and once you can do it, you'll never go back to the stock view system or camera view addons. To try it out all you need is a webcam and then download the free demo from the store. 15 minutes at a time is more than enough to get a good feel for how it changes the entire experience of flying.

[conundrum]

4 hours ago, rhb said:

I looked at the thread for the Thermal script, but I was not able to access the download, (may be my problem) last post on Alex's thread was 2014, is it still supported and working?...

https://github.com/alexferrer/xplane_thermals

[Cannuccia]

I reported the cloud on top of (decent) thermals in 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016...and still waiting...

[Julio Viana]

I have flown with the Aerobask Antares 20E, I have never flown any real aircraft (only paper plane ... kkkkk) and use xplane_thermals.
I would also like to have some improvement in XP11 for my flight experiences.

[rhb]

12 hours ago, Vorlin said:

I was the one who suggested clouds be slapped at the top of thermals and yes, I did communicate this via a bug report, as suggested.

As far as a lack of replies go, be patient. Many of us can go weeks without checking the forums, myself included.

The thermals script does indeed work, though getting the python to work was a real hassle for me.

One strange issue I've had twice is the VSI and Total Energy instruments suddenly inverting, reading down for lift and up for sink. Both times it seems to have taken a reinstall to fix the problem.

 

Yes most of my sailplanes experience inverted vario readings, I tried going into planemaker and there you will find and increasing TE Vario and a decreasing TE vario. I replaced the gauges in some planes, but in some you cannot do this, and not sure it is a correct solution. If you use LK 8000 it becomes less relevant as it also shows when you are in lift.

I use Face Track Noir a formerly free but now donation ware program that also works well as a head tracking device. They just released a new version 200. a little over 3 dollars, too cheap.

http://facetracknoir.sourceforge.net/home/default.htm

Edited August 4, 2017 by rhb

[rhb]

Please check the starter topic at the head of the thread for links and names of APPs that have been suggested in this thread.

I will add edits as I find more sources, Thanks.

here are two youtube tutorials for LK 8000:

 

Edited August 5, 2017 by rhb

[rhb]

Apparently the server was Down? and at least 4 posts were deleted from this thread in the process. well to continue the discussion of LK 8000. I was able today to resolve getting the turnpoints (waypoints) loaded and working, as well as the Airspaces and airports. Waypoints, maps, and Airspaces/airports can be downloaded from several sailplane specific web sites and general aviation websites, I'll list them at the end and in the header topic starter.

Waypoints should be in the CUP file extension, Airspaces and airports are simply TXT extensions. The trickey bit is to get the right file type, then load them into the Android app. Here is what I did, probably other ways as well. I downloaded and formatted the various libraries on my desk top, then plugged in my Android device with a USB cable. Then transfer the needed files to your phone or tablet in any folder available on your particular interface. .after the successful transfer, unplug the android device and locate the LK 8000 folder on either your SD card or local memory. Best I'm told to keep them all on local memory if you have it or they may not be accessible to the APP. open the LK folder on your android device, search the folder you want to transfer data to (example cup files to waypoint folder), copy paste from your download or transfer file on your Tablet to the appropriate folder in the LK app hierarchy. done.

Now you should be able to access the files from NAV button, page 2, edit Task page.

here you can get everything you need, there are other sites that are region or club specific as well. http://soaringweb.org/TP/NA.html#US_NY

 

[rhb]

As well as missing posts since the outage, some of the links you guys suggested, and I posted were also deleted from the topic starter, please post them again and I will re-add them at the top. Thanks.

[P G]

HI There All,

I see technology has bested us and deleted posts!

These are a precis of comments / suggestions i made in earlier post.

Python version 2.7.3 works for me for thermal scripts: By Alex Ferrer .

OpenTrack is a great headtracker for LED Cap or Clip.  https://github.com/opentrack/opentrack/releases

This version is stable;   https://github.com/opentrack/opentrack/releases/tag/opentrack-2.3.1.4

Creator of XPRealistic & SimHat,  RK86097, Has an app to enable your i-phone (and soon Android) as a Headtracker. http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/126574-iphone-users-check-this-out/

Basic setup of LK8000 in "monkey see / monkey do" pics here, (Great for me as have never used anything but maps or garmin in the car), https://sites.google.com/site/jarosrwebsite/goflypico/setting-up-lk8000

UK Turning Point List Prog for pc, (Waypoints). Select "Cambridge" output for X-C Soar LK8000 (CUP).    http://www.newportpeace.co.uk/waypoints/_tpselect/tpselect_load.htm

Not found how to Import Waypoint, TP yet But will lean on rhb's advice an try later.

Regards

 

P G

 

[rhb]

With moderate difficulty I got the Alex Ferrer thermal scripts file installed.

To help others; I will provide both instructions and links in case links later disappear... Red links are all you need if you want to just download files.

You need to download and install three sets of files.

1. Python program from Python.org: https://www.python.org/downloads/windows/

Use the above link, do not go to opening page and download the link there, it is 32 bit.or:

page down  (Far)until you see 64 bit version 2.7.3 or click this link: https://www.python.org/ftp/python/2.7.3/python-2.7.3.amd64.msi

install the above on computer.

2. From http://www.xpluginsdk.org/python_interface.htm

click this link; http://www.xpluginsdk.org/python_interface_downloads.htm

then when on next page click downloads button or this: http://www.xpluginsdk.org/python_interface_latest_downloads.htm

then click on Python 2.7 link: http://www.xpluginsdk.org/downloads/latest/Python27/PythonInterface.zip

this begins the download of the interface files, after downloading, unzip into a folder you will create yourself in XP/Resources/plugins folder. Name this folder "PythonInterface"

now you have the needed interface installed in X Plane.

3. Now down load the scripts files: Go to Alex Ferrer Github: https://github.com/alexferrer/xplane_thermals

download all the files, you will not need them all but it won't hurt and its easier, some are test files some are needed,

after down loading unzip and place only the script files in another folder you must create in the Plug in folder in X Plane, name this folder "PythonScripts"

that should do it, load X plane look to the plugin tab you should see python scripts. open activate or reload the scripts if needed and go thermal.

 

Edited August 6, 2017 by rhb

[rhb]

Referencing the Alex Ferrer Thermal scripts, When I first installed them there was some sort of conflict with Fly with LUA scripts I had installed. I had to reload both sets of scripts several times(don't ask me how I did it) :), but it did eventually load correctly and all scripts are working now. In the plugins tab within X Plane you should see 2 listings:

Python Interface>

 

Thermal scripts>

 

[rhb]

The Thermal scripts seem to wok well. I am a little surprised how much they lean with the wind, It's not what I recall from using Cumulus X on FSX. But then I'm not sure which is more realistic. Another thing, unless I'm doing something wrong, is as you leave the area of thermals, you have to manually re load the scripts for the next bit of real estate. But that aside it is a leap forward from the stock thermals and they are adjustable in size, strength, frequency, and pattern of dispersion.

[Vorlin]

You don't need to reload but you do need to go in and regenerate thermals once you leave the area they were generated for when you started.

[rhb]

19 hours ago, Vorlin said:

You don't need to reload but you do need to go in and regenerate thermals once you leave the area they were generated for when you started.

Yes, it is what I meant... requires clicking, but a small price to pay for a much better thermal interface and generation.

[alexferrer]

On 8/7/2017 at 10:32 PM, rhb said:

The Thermal scripts seem to wok well. I am a little surprised how much they lean with the wind, It's not what I recall from using Cumulus X on FSX. But then I'm not sure which is more realistic. Another thing, unless I'm doing something wrong, is as you leave the area of thermals, you have to manually re load the scripts for the next bit of real estate. But that aside it is a leap forward from the stock thermals and they are adjustable in size, strength, frequency, and pattern of dispersion.

The formula for the thermal wind drift is just to apply the wind component to the ascending thermal.. In real life, thermals can be quite dense (huge bubbles of hot humid air) so there should be some resistance to movement (Newton's second law) 

 

[alexferrer]

On 8/5/2017 at 7:36 PM, rhb said:

With moderate difficulty I got the Alex Ferrer thermal scripts file installed.

To help others; I will provide both instructions and links in case links later disappear... Red links are all you need if you want to just download files.

You need to download and install three sets of files.

1. Python program from Python.org: https://www.python.org/downloads/windows/

Use the above link, do not go to opening page and download the link there, it is 32 bit.or:

page down  (Far)until you see 64 bit version 2.7.3 or click this link: https://www.python.org/ftp/python/2.7.3/python-2.7.3.amd64.msi

install the above on computer.

2. From http://www.xpluginsdk.org/python_interface.htm

click this link; http://www.xpluginsdk.org/python_interface_downloads.htm

then when on next page click downloads button or this: http://www.xpluginsdk.org/python_interface_latest_downloads.htm

then click on Python 2.7 link: http://www.xpluginsdk.org/downloads/latest/Python27/PythonInterface.zip

this begins the download of the interface files, after downloading, unzip into a folder you will create yourself in XP/Resources/plugins folder. Name this folder "PythonInterface"

now you have the needed interface installed in X Plane.

3. Now down load the scripts files: Go to Alex Ferrer Github: https://github.com/alexferrer/xplane_thermals

download all the files, you will not need them all but it won't hurt and its easier, some are test files some are needed,

after down loading unzip and place only the script files in another folder you must create in the Plug in folder in X Plane, name this folder "PythonScripts"

that should do it, load X plane look to the plugin tab you should see python scripts. open activate or reload the scripts if needed and go thermal.

 

Can I steal this and add it to the instructions on the Github ? 

Alex. 

 

[alexferrer]

16 hours ago, rhb said:

Yes, it is what I meant... requires clicking, but a small price to pay for a much better thermal interface and generation.

I have not worked on the script for a while... (3 years?)  If I recall correctly, there is a performance price to pay if too many thermals are generated.. each one is stored on a dictionary and the current area is defined as a 100x100km area.. 

The list is just a plain python dictionary [lon,lat](thermal radius, strength)